By INTRODUCTION: DAVID SELZER
I set up this section of my website to celebrate and promote creative work by people I like and admire. However, unusually for this OTHER PEOPLE’S FLOWERS posting, I have chosen a particular book – ‘THE PROCESS OF POETRY’ – rather than a person, though, as you will see below, the editor of the book, Rosanna McGlone, has kindly agreed to make the major contribution to the post.
‘THE PROCESS OF POETRY’, published by Fly On The Wall Press –https://www.flyonthewallpress.co.uk/product-page/the-process-of-poetry-edited-by-rosanna-mcglone – at £10.99, comprises interviews with fifteen contemporary and award winning UK poets, focussing on how each of them makes a poem. The poets include George Szirtes, Liz Lochhead, Don Paterson, Pascale Petit, Hannah Lowe, Gillian Clarke, Regi Claire, Joelle Taylor, and Victoria Kennefick.
I have chosen to showcase the book because it is a fascinating, unique, impressive and very important piece of research – which is already appearing in Creative Writing MA reading lists – into the creative process, a process which is one of the characteristics that makes us human, and whose fostering ought to be central to all forms of education at all stages. The best of research is creative in conception and execution, and ‘THE PROCESS OF POETRY’ is no exception. It seems appropriate therefore that the researcher tells us about the process that created the book.
‘THE PROCESS OF POETRY’: ROSANNA MCGLONE
A chance meeting between two World War 1 soldiers lies at the heart of my latest work. Sometimes ideas simmer, don’t they? It is possible that the concept for The Process of Poetry first developed several decades ago, during my brief spell as a secondary school Head of English. I recall employing a book, The Forms of Poetry, and being captivated by the drafts exchanged between Wilfred Owen and his mentor, Seigfried Sassoon, whilst they were in Craiglockhart Hospital, in Edinburgh. Sassoon provided feedback on a number of versions and, on each occasion, Owen had the choice as to whether to incorporate these suggestions into his poem which ultimately became the sonnet, Anthem for Doomed Youth. As a working-class girl this was my first exposure to the type of drafts ordinarily kept in hallowed university archives, and I was hooked.
It struck me that it would have been marvellous to have known the rationale behind those decisions. Wouldn’t it be incredible to ask living poets to share their working methods and to focus on the editorial decisions they made in developing a single poem?
Years later, whilst running poetry classes for adults, I became aware that ‘my’ poets were sometimes overwhelmed by the stunning execution of the poems we study during our workshops, and not a little disheartened that their own efforts, dashed off in the final 20 minutes, bore little resemblance to the accomplished pieces of others.
The idea for The Process of Poetry was reinforced further by my attendance at a workshop run by the poet, John McCullough, where John both shared early drafts, and discussed the journey, of several of his poems.
One never quite knows how past skills set will coalesce, however this project perfectly synthesised my experience as a journalist with my current work as a poetry tutor.
However, the idea was the easy part. Next, I needed to secure a publisher. I was fortunate to find Isabelle Kenyon at the feisty Fly on the Wall Press. My excitement knew no bounds, until I realised that the understandably tiny advance for what was likely to be at least a year’s work made the book unfeasible.
The situation was exacerbated when it was pointed out that I would need to negotiate, and pay for, permissions to use the published versions of the 15 poems selected.
Thus far, I had been very fortunate in securing Arts Council funding, achieving success with 3 out of 3 applications. But would my luck hold? And would my publisher wait?
At this point, the project extended beyond the book to offer several community workshops in Lincolnshire, several local school sixth forms, as well as a series of online workshops open to emerging poets across the country. This led to the formation of numerous invaluable partnerships within my local community including with arts organisation, Transported Arts, and various schools and workshop venues.
I approached the late Benjamin Zephaniah whom I had first met more than 30 years ago when I interviewed him for The Weekend Australian. Benjamin was amazingly generous with his support of other artists and promptly wrote a letter for me to submit with my application, strongly endorsing the aim of providing a unique insight, thereby supporting emerging and intermediate poets.
Why these particular poets?
My selection was partly based on personal preference, with a desire to include some of my favourite poets, however it was important to me that the book represented a diverse group of poets, thereby reflecting the society in which we live.
I knew none of the participants personally, and I believe it highlights the importance of this project that at least 90 percent of the poets whom I approached, not only immediately agreed to take part, but shared a real enthusiastic for the concept and a genuine desire to impart working processes.
A noticeable omission is the poet, Tony Harrison, who very sadly did not have the mental capacity to take part. Tony’s daughter, to whom I spoke, said that it was something her father would have loved, driven as he was to broaden the appeal of poetry.
There are many other poets whom I would love to have included, and would do, should an opportunity to develop the project further arise.
And these particular poems?
The selection of poems, as you can imagine, took some time. Each poet was asked to share 3 poems with me, in order to provide sufficient variety, both of approach, and of end product. Sonnets were all the go! But where was my range? Towards the end, I began to suggest poetic forms. ‘Does anyone have a poem written in tercets?’ ‘George, you wouldn’t happen to have a villanelle, would you?’ and so on. In fact, whilst George Szirtes didn’t have an early draft of the villanelle I had in mind, I was delighted when he generously offered to write one specifically for the book.
The selection criteria was quite strict. The poems needed to be dissimilar, but not too dissimilar, the poet needed to remember the rationale for the decisions that they had made and, ideally, the pieces needed to be relatively short, in order to sit on facing pages of the book.
I enjoyed the mental stimulation of poring over drafts and composing questions, from which I was nevertheless always happy to deviate, should circumstances demand it. In the case of Joelle Taylor, they certainly did. We had agreed the extract from C+nto that we would be exploring, however on the morning of her interview, Joelle arrived very excited. Why? She had recently been asked by The University of East Anglia for all of her early drafts of C+nto, however that morning she had unearthed a striking phone note which she brought to our meeting. This was fantastic, however it was on a completely different part of the poem to the one I had prepped. It was an absolute pleasure to interview Joelle for a second time.
As the project advanced, it broadened beyond a sole focus on a single poem. Interviewees had such a wealth of experience that it seemed remiss not to explore it, to ask what they sought as editors, judges and how the essence of a poem could be retained in translation.
I enjoyed, too, learning which poets had provided my interviewees with their first encounters with poetry. Sylvia Plath, Tennyson and Joolz Denby were all mentioned, but which poet chose which as their formative inspiration?
It was fascinating, and illuminating, interviewing poets in their home environments, particularly meeting Gillian Clarke in the tranquillity of her remote Welsh smallholding and conversely visiting Liz Lochhead in her beautiful Glasgow flat overlooking a bustling main road. Listening to both Gillian and Liz reading their work to me in their own homes was a real privilege.
If I have one regret it is in not being able to meet more of the poets in person, but time, logistics and funding constraints made this impossible on this occasion. However, I am hoping that there will be interest in developing the concept further. So, next time, perhaps?
REVIEWS, MENTIONS, SALES, SEQUELS, AND LINKS
REVIEWS
The Process of Poetry first appeared, the day after its release into the wild, on BBC Radio 4’s Front Row. This was quite a nerve-wracking experience as it was live, and I had no prior warning of the questions. It was, therefore, rather like sitting an examination on my own book!
Another radio presenter, Ian McMillan from The Verb, described it on twitter as, ‘… a really good poetry manual… it illuminates and clarifies the art of making poems.”
Its first review came from the Forward prize-winning poet, Malika Booker, who wrote, ‘The Process of Poetry is a fantastic idea. Beautifully executed, this book will prove invaluable to poets, creative writing students, and anyone interested in the creative process.’
Buzz Magazine described The Process of Poetry as ‘…a wonder, and a must-buy for anyone who loves verse or who wishes to gain insights and ideas on how to create it.’
Further reviews came from Roger Caldwell, in London Grip, ‘… there is much to relish and ponder on, and The Culture Boar Pod who will be featuring it on a future podcast commented, ‘This is a really exceptional book. It’s wonderful.’
Write Out Loud commented that, ‘These are poets at the top of their game generously sharing their creative tips and thoughts. These insights only scratch the surface of the revelations, perceptions, and observations contained in The Process of Poetry… Many congratulations to journalist, writer and poetry tutor Rosanna McGlone for having the vision for this book, and for pinning down an impressive array of poets to deliver such insights about their craft…. It will undoubtedly also feature on many universities’ set books list, if it isn’t on them already, and is highly recommended to any students and writers of poetry.’
It has, indeed, been added to several Poetry MA reading lists including those at Edinburgh University, Lincoln University and Nottingham Trent University.
MENTIONS
The aim of The Process of Poetry was to offer a unique insight into the practice of some of the country’s leading poets, in order to provide advice, guidance and approaches to developing a poem from an embryonic idea to a published poem. (Although, of course, not all poets seek the validation of publication.)
The book has received some kind mentions from members of the public through social media and review sites, including:
‘I’ve decided to start my editing for the evening with a poem that I was always quite happy with. I suppose I thought it was strong because it has a decent sense of metre, powerful imagery, and a lot of pleasant rhyme. I see now that there’s massive scope for improvement. I’ll be recommending the book to my friends, clients, and fellow poets here in Ireland.’ Tomas O’Coileain
‘Wonderful. I’ve just bought your book! So love the first chapter – so amazing, such insight. I’ve won poetry awards and placed in others, but want to be better, more concise and articulate. I really think your book will help. Thank you so much.’ Peter Devonald
‘This is simply one of the best books on the craft of writing poetry I have ever read. The selected poets really show how multi-faceted and subjective the creative process of poetry is so there is plenty to inspire a budding writer here as well as help affirm to a would-be poet the importance of finding one’s own way.’ Inbr1ghtestday
Waterstones, Amazon and Good Reads, also have generous praise for the book.
SALES
Whilst for me, the most important metric is whether the work has achieved what it set out to do, and, if possible, is of some lasting significance, it is difficult not to reflect on sales. The Process of Poetry was number 1 on Amazon UK, number 12 on Amazon Australia and the Kindle version was number 30 on Amazon in America. Inpress, which represents 50 independent publishers, announced that The Process of Poetry was its second highest seller in December. I suspect that much of this was driven by my appearance, with Don Paterson, on Front Row.
SEQUELS
Reviews will also be appearing in The Morning Star, The Yorkshire Times, Orbis volume 108, Lincolnshire Life Magazine, Dreich Magazine, Lincs Online and The Friday Poem . There was a Final Draft launch on Zoom on 29th February.
However, this may not be the final chapter. Watch this space, as they say.
LINKS
Tom Sutcliffe, BBC Front Row Presenter at the 15 minute mark BBC Radio 4 – Front Row, Movie stars Adam Driver and Bill Nighy, author AL Kennedy, and the Process of Poetry
Roger Caldwell, London Grip’… there is much to relish and ponder on.’ THE PROCESS OF POETRY – londongrip.co.uk
https://www.writeoutloud.net/public/blogentry.php?blogentryid=133371
Buzz Magazine ‘ New poetry for January: towers, tolls, tarot cards, teenagers & a title raising money for Gazan children
Waterstones Reviews, including Waterstone’s staff reviews here: The Process of Poetry by Rosanna McGlone | Waterstones
BIOGRAPHY
Rosanna McGlone is a writer and journalist. She has written more than a 100 features for both national, and international, publications including The Australian, The Sydney Morning Herald, Salon.com, The Guardian and The Independent. Her most recent book is The Process of Poetry a series of interviews with some of the country’s leading poets including Don Paterson, Joelle Taylor, Liz Lochhead and Pascale Petit, exploring the development of an early poem into a final draft. Her first radio play was shortlisted for the BBC’s Alfred Bradley Bursary Award. Her work has been supported by, amongst others, Arts Council England, The National Lottery Heritage Fund, Hull Truck Theatre, Vault Festival and The Old Vic New Voices Programme. Writing residencies include Capricorn Hill, NSW, Australia and The Hosking Houses Trust, Stratford-upon-Avon, England.
Rosanna runs Zoom poetry classes on a Tuesday evening and a Thursday morning. She is also available to write biographies, a perfect retirement gift, or simply a treat for oneself: mcglonehealey@yahoo.com or please call for more details, 07570 480802 or contact via Twitter @RosannaMcGlone.
Don PatersondraftingeditingGeorge SzirtesGillian ClarkeHannah LoweJoelle TaylorLiz LochheadPascale PetitRegi ClairerewritingVictoria Kennefic
Harvey Lillywhite
March 15, 2024Thanks for this…interesting ground to explore.
David Selzer
March 15, 2024Yes, it is, isn’t it, Harvey? What a wonderful resource this would have been when I was teaching literature – all those centuries ago!
Alan Horne
March 20, 2024Thanks to David and Rosanna. Interesting to read about the genesis of the book.
Howard Gardener
April 2, 2024Hi Rosanna. This was a very interesting contribution to David’s OPF section. I was surprised (initially at least) at how much work was involved in making such an interesting book available. My own experience is that getting anything involving other people off the ground is usually hard work. Even if one’s organisational skills are up to the job, they nearly always falter when the fickle question of money (publishers) enters the fray. In an ideal world, enthusiasm alone ought to guarantee the success of a procedure like your own but we all know that’s not usually the case. Add to this an increasing tendency to assume that poetry, like artwork and music, should be free anyway (thank you, Internet…) and the difficulties in getting a project like yours off the ground would seem to doom it to failure.
You described how most of the poets approached were more than happy to get involved and I was impressed at the numbers – 90% – yikes! I haven’t seen the actual book (yet) but to me, the idea of explaining the poems’ genesis and development was a very intriguing one. I think that perhaps one major flaw might be that the creative process of writing poetry is only interesting up to a point – unless one is a poet, of course. In addition, if the subject is suspected of not being mainstream enough, any difficulties would then seem to be amplified accordingly.
I am assuming then that along with your remarkable doggedness, the involvement of ‘Front Row’ was sufficient to give ample exposure to your project that enough listeners sat up and took notice and brought it to a successful conclusion.
Anyway, well done for sticking at it and making ‘The Process of Poetry’ a winner. I wish you well in all your future schemes.
Rosanna McGlone
April 3, 2024Hi Howard, thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed comment and for your kind words. Yes, it’s important to note that it couldn’t have happened without an Arts Council Grant for which I am incredibly grateful.
I was a little surprised that so many poets were willing to participate, and not just willing, but positively excited about sharing their craft, even though this involved showing a – less than flattering – earlier draft.
Haha, yes it would be a flaw, if I were seeking to be a bestseller! However, it seems to be working okay with my, albeit niche, audience. Incidentally, a short story writer posted on twitter yesterday, echoing Malika Booker’s comment, that the process depicted was also applicable to creative writing.
If you do get round to reading it, l’d love to hear your thoughts.
Howard Gardener
April 11, 2024I read the book a few days ago. That there were poets who described their work in terms equally suited to music and dance did not really surprise me but the extent of the similarities did. I am not a poet, although I did write and record many songs, until a hearing deficit stopped me in my tracks, as it were, ten years ago. Like some of your featured poets, I could easily spend a day or so toggling between two words (‘and/or’ being a particularly popular fence upon which to perch).
The subject of titles seems to be important to you and rightly so in my opinion; it’s an opportunity often wasted. John McCullough noted (P23) their importance and this was echoed by Regi Claire (P76) among other contributors. I am always reminded of the American comedian Stephen Wright, who claims he used to walk around art museums giving alternative names to all the pictures called ‘Untitled’ (“Boy with Pail, Kitten on Fire…”). My own view is that the title can add another level. In my drawings, I will sometimes use a title as a punchline, so that hopefully, as the penny drops, the work attains a further piquancy. I remember thinking how much the Queen song, ‘Bohemian Rhapsody’, would have been diminished had Freddie Mercury decided to call it ‘Mama Just Killed a Man’ or similar.
For me, an apposite title can affect the expectation of a piece of work by underlining (or masking) something of importance; sometimes deliberately wrongfooting the observer or setting the scene before they even begin to consciously analyse the work. Titles, in my opinion, should never be wasted or casual. Liz Lockhead puts it slightly differently: “What’s not essential mars the poem. Always.” (P126). She goes further, advising us to trust our instincts by being open to reintroducing things that have previously felt the sharp edge of our editing scissors (P124). I often used to find that I would record a song and use a synthesiser to add a cello, for example, just to help lubricate the complex process of orchestration. My synthesiser probably had about thirty cellos to choose from and invariably I would have to try every single one of them, usually only to return to the first.
Writing poetry appears to use many similar systems. It’s not enough to simply accept the first thing that comes to mind, even if that should ultimately prove to be the answer: each small change can alter the whole piece. There is a risk that if caution is not employed, the work can then start to run away in a direction where it can no longer be retrieved. The alternative though is never knowing whether or not the work could have been improved. I smiled to myself when I read about some poems gestating for ten years while others took only days to come to fruition. Maybe we secretly enjoy all that effort, irrespective of whether we consider it wasted. ‘The Process of Poetry’ illustrates perfectly the importance of editing and throws a fascinating light upon the myriad ways in which we all accomplish this, irrespective of our particular discipline.
John McCullough was also (P26) the first person in the book to be asked when a poem was finished. Andy Partridge, who was the principal songwriter of the band XTC, used to say that a song was never finished; it was always only a matter of time before one reached the stage of declaring that one was just too sick of a song to pursue it further. I should perhaps write to him and suggest George Szirtes’ especially useful “End firmly and step off lightly.” (P116).
I was very intrigued by Caroline Bird’s method of writing. She says (P103) that “Sometimes a poem wants you to intervene and lead, and sometimes a poem just wants you to get out of its way.” Some years ago, I read a book about songwriting in which all the songwriters (with the notable exception of Paul Simon) claimed that they were just channelling the songs, as though they were not really responsible for them. I have always been a bit suspicious of this approach and feared at first that Caroline was doing the same thing. The further I read though, the more I began to see that if she does do this, it’s because she knows full well that the poem is not sentient as such; it’s just another game she plays with herself to fool herself into achieving her ends.
Somewhere in the book (sorry, I can’t remember where), one of the poets was saying that they used different words and tenses in order to suggest a number of distinct levels of activity in the same poem. Once again, it struck me that what they were doing was the same as a painter will do: creating a background, a middle distance and a foreground, so that it becomes like a more interesting way of watching the scenery from the window of a moving train. Many of the most satisfying pictures seem to do this and it’s something to which I always try to pay attention, while simultaneously trying to bear in mind the overall economy of the composition and using as few props as necessary. I loved the Peter Porter quote in the section by George Szirtes (P116): “When you’ve got the building, remove the scaffolding.” Otherwise there’s the risk – already mentioned above – of a piece of work becoming lumpen and/or ultimately inaccessible.